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The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
المروحية :




مُساهمةموضوع: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الثلاثاء 5 يونيو 2012 - 18:56

Egypt Future Submarine


Rewritten May 2001 HOT NEWS: August
2001





Moray Class Submarine
Program Status: Planned -- likely. The US
Government is currently evaluating a scheme whereby Northrop Grumman
Ingalls Shipbuilding will build two Moray 1400 class
submarines designed by Rotterdam Dockyard Company Submarines (RDMS)
and Nevesbu BV for the Egyptian Navy (EN).

Operational Requirement: The EN has a
requirement for a modern submarine force to conduct anti-submarine
and anti-surface warfare (ASW/ASuW) patrols in the Mediterranean and
Red Seas. Additionally, the submarines are needed to counter the
newer submarines being acquired by Iran (three Kilo class)
and Israel (three Dolphin/Type 800 class).

Program Background: Since the early 1990s,
the EN has been attempting to acquire Western submarines to replace
the four Improved Romeo (Type 033) class that were
transferred from China in the early 1980s. As recently as 1989,
Egypt had a submarine force of 12 Romeo and Whiskey
class submarines but age has reduced that number to the current
four. The four Romeo class currently in service were
modernized with Western weapons and sensor systems from 1993 through
1996. However, these units were built in the 1960s, and will need
replacement within the next several years.

Egypt issued a Request for Proposal (RfP) for new
submarines in September 1991, and since that time the program has
been bedeviled by financial and diplomatic obstacles. The heart of
Egypt�s difficulties stem from the fact that most of Egypt�s
military procurements are financed by the US$1.3B it receives in US
foreign military assistance (FMA), and the US is unwilling to allow
these funds to pay for the purchase of non-American military
equipment. Unfortunately for Egypt�s submarine acquisition
efforts, US shipyards have not produced diesel-electric submarines
since the 1960s. Egypt spent most of the past decade trying to
obtain an affordable acquisition package that satisfies US content
requirements. Listed below were some of the options that were
initially considered by the EN
:

<blockquote>

  1. Type 209 class: Under this
    proposal, Ingalls Shipbuilding (now Northrop Grumman) would
    purchase kits for two Type 209 submarines from
    Howaldtswerft Deutsche Werke (HDW), ship them to the US, and
    assemble the submarines in Pascagoula, Mississippi. Under this
    arrangement, approximately 60% of the effort would come through
    US content and be eligible for FMA funding, the remainder would
    require Egyptian National Defense Budget funding. In April of
    1994, the US State Department granted Ingalls an export license
    for two Type 209 submarines, indicating that the shipyard
    was fairly far along in its planning. However, in June of 1997,
    Ingalls announced that it had withdrawn its bid from
    consideration. The value of the Ingalls Type 209 proposal
    was reported to be US$800M.
  2. Scorpene class: In April 1997,
    Southwest Marine of San Diego, CA, teamed with Empresa Nacional
    Bazan (now IZAR) of Spain, visited Egypt to present their proposal
    to build two Scorpene class submarines fitted with US-made
    internals provided by Lockheed Martin Systems and EDO. The
    Southwest Marine offer was extremely attractive in that it
    involved a US content of between 80-86%; presumably achieved by
    conducting most of the hull construction in the US. On the other
    hand, the Southwest Marine/IZAR offer carried significant risk
    with an untried design and a new team in the submarine
    construction business. The Southwest Marine/IZAR proposal was
    reportedly valued at between US$600-700M.
  3. Kilo class: Loral (now part of
    Lockheed Martin Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems) and
    Rockwell (now Boeing) investigated teaming with Krasnoye Sormovo
    Shipyard in Nihzhny Novogorod, Russia to present an offer that
    would produce two Kilo class submarines fitted with US-made
    internals. The effort met early and strong resistance from the US
    Congress and State Department, and was never seriously considered.
  4. Agosta B class: There were several
    reports that Pakistan offered its Agosta B design to the EN
    for a total of US$119M for two units.

  5. Zwaardvis class: The Royal
    Netherlands Navy decommissioned its two Zwaardvis class
    submarines in 1995 after 23 years of service, and in 1996 they
    transferred the submarines to Rotterdam Dockyard Company (RDM)
    for re-sale. In 1998, the press reported that Egypt, the
    Netherlands, and the US were involved in advanced negotiations
    to put together a deal for US FMA funding to purchase, refit,
    and modernize the two Zwaardvis class submarines for
    Egyptian service. Reportedly, the two submarines would have been
    refit and modernized by Ingalls with combat systems supplied by
    Lockheed Martin. This proposal probably did not have the level
    of US content needed to be financially feasible and, the EN was
    more interested in new submarines.

  6. Moray class: Nevesbu BV and
    Rotterdam Dockyard Company Submarines (RDMS), developed the Moray
    design in the early 1990s, and have had no success in finding
    prospective customers. At IMDEX ASIA-99, held in Singapore in
    May of 1999, RDMS teamed with Lockheed Martin Undersea Systems
    (with its SUBICS 900 combat system) and Ingalls Shipbuilding to
    address the Egyptian requirement. At IMDEX, members of the team
    were optimistic that this was the best solution, however, had
    major political hurdles to cross for final approval.

</blockquote>
Of the six proposals received by the EN, only the
Moray and the Zwaardvis classes were seriously
considered. The biggest detractor for the Zaardvis class was
its relative age. The EN did not want to buy more used submarines to
face a similar obsolescence problem a decade later. By late 1999,
the EN decided that the Moray design constructed in US would
be the best solution. Weapon systems availability, crew training,
and program financing appear to have convinced the EN that the Moray
is the most logical choice for the new submarine
.

Program Acquisition Plan: The program
acquisition plan for the Moray submarine is entirely
dependent on acquiring necessary funding, RDMS design guarantees,
and US Government releasability for technology transfers to the EN.
The financing hurdle has apparently already been cleared, as funding
will be reportedly be available by October 2002. On 15 September
2000, Egypt signed a letter of intent to procure two Moray 1400
class submarines from Ingalls Shipbuilding. The EN is now free to
sign a Memorandum of Agreement (MoA) with RDMS for design and
performance guarantees. RDMS has been reluctant in the past to
guarantee a design that has never been used, however, considerable
pressure will probably be applied by Litton Ingalls Shipbuilding and
Lockheed Martin Naval Electronic & Surveillance Systems
(NE&SS) to reach some type of guarantee. More than likely, some
type of quality assurance issues will be guaranteed for the EN in
order to complete this deal.

Currently, the technology releasability issue
(for export license) is being examined by the US Government
(primarily by the US Navy and the Defense Security and Cooperation
Agency {DSCA}) to ensure there is no inadvertent technology transfer
to the EN. It also must be noted that the US Navy is reluctant to
allow US shipbuilders to produce diesel submarines, and the Ingalls
technology compliance plan must be agreed upon by US Navy officials
for final approval. However, US Navy reluctance will probably be
overcome by diplomatic and industrial pressure, and program approval
is anticipated by mid-2002, with a construction contract by the end
of the year. The first unit (Batch I) will probably start
construction in 2003, with delivery to the EN in 2006, and unit two
(Batch I) delivering in 2008.

Two additional units (Batch II) will probably be
ordered around 2008, with construction commencing in 2010. Batch II
will also consist of two units and be delivered by 2013 and 2014.
All four units are expected to replace the four Improved Romeo
class on a one-for-one basis.

Estimates are that the first two submarines will
cost around US$400M each, and as of 1999, only US$300M from its US
FMA allowance was destined for the submarine acquisition. Additional
funding for units one and two will be obtained in 2002 by
reprioritizing the existing budget. Funding for units three and four
is not anticipated until around 2008. The following acquisition
plan, for a buy of four units valued at an estimated US$400M each,
is projected:




  • Contract Design 1999

  • Construction Contract RfP 1999

  • Construction Contract Award (Batch I) 2002

  • First of Class Commissions 2006

  • Hull Two Commissions 2008

  • Construction Contract Award (Batch II) 2008

  • Hull Three Commissions 2010

  • Hull Four Commissions 2011

Design and Construction Considerations: When
the EN released its RfP inSeptember 1991, it listed specific
capabilities and financing terms as identified below:




  • The design would have at least three years of
    proven operational experience.


  • The submarines will be able to fire the
    Boeing Harpoon surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) and the
    Raytheon Mk-37 torpedoes
    .

  • Support would be provided in crew training,
    spares, and documentation.

  • Program financing.

The RDMS Moray design appears to meet the
criteria as specified by the EN, with the exception of the three
years of operational experience. This is primarily the reason the EN
is insisting on design and performance guarantees. More than likely,
the new submarine will have the following systems installed:





  • Six 21-inch (533mm) torpedo tubes for the
    Boeing Harpoon and Raytheon Mk 37 torpedoes.


  • Lockheed Martin NE&SS- Undersea Systems
    SUBICS 900 Combat Management System (CMS).


  • Litton Marine Systems BPS-15 surface search
    radar.


  • Condor Systems AR-900 Electronic Support
    Measures (ESM) suite.


  • An undetermined bow-mounted cylindrical and
    flank arrays; intercept and mine avoidance sonar.


  • Kollmorgen Model 76 Attack and Search
    periscopes
    .


Ship Characteristics:




Vessel Type

Submarine

Country

Egypt

Program

Future Submarine

Total Number

2

Unit Cost (US$)

400M (Est.)

Builder

To be determined, probably Northrop Grumman Ingalls
Shipbuilding using the RDMS Moray 1400 design.

Displ. Tons

1,595 (submerged)

Length

57m (187ft)

Beam

6.4m (20.9ft)

Draft

5.4m (17.7ft)

Machinery

Diesel-electric: Three diesels; one shaft; one propeller.
(Est.)

Speed (Knots)

12 (surfaced or snorting); 20 submerged. (Est.)

Range

9,000nm (surfaced/snorting): 300 (submerged). (Est.)

Diving Depth

300m (984.2ft) (Est.)

Complement

25 (including 5 officers) (Est.)

Weapons

Torpedoes: Six 21-inch (533mm) tubes with a weapons
load-out of 18 Raytheon Mk 37 torpedoes or mines.

Missiles

Surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs): Boeing Harpoon SSMs in
lieu of torpedoes.

CMS/Fire Control

CMS: Lockheed Martin SUBICS 900. (Est.)

Radar

Surface search: Open. Probably Litton Marine Systems
BPS-15.

Countermeasures

Electronic Support Measures (ESM): Open. Probably Condor
Systems AR-900 ESM suite.

Sonar

Open. Probably bow-mounted cylindrical and flank arrays;
intercept and mine avoidance.

Periscope

Open. Probably Kollmorgen Model 76 Attack and Search
periscopes.




عدل سابقا من قبل The Challenger في الثلاثاء 5 يونيو 2012 - 19:06 عدل 1 مرات
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
المروحية :




مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الثلاثاء 5 يونيو 2012 - 19:04

عفوا المصدر
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
المروحية :




مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الثلاثاء 5 يونيو 2012 - 19:23

Moray


The
program definition study for the Moray was completed, and the program
had entered advanced development at the time of the bankruptcy of the
build, RDM Submarines, in 2004. The `Moray' is a further evolution of
the `Walrus' design. It offered a wide range of customised systems and a
high level of system integration to accommodate specific requirements
for endurance and combat capabilities according to customer
requirements. Moray stands for Multi Operational Requirement Affected
Yield, the submarine is of a modular design. It was possible to make a
choice between a 1100 t, 1400 t and +/- 1800 t submerged version. with a
length of 55.7 meters, 64 meters and 75.9 meters meters respectively.
In each case, the design called for a Beam of 6.4 meters and a Draft of
5.5 meters. The 1800 and 1400 studies were completed in 1993 and 1997.
The Moray class was to be the first submarines built from the bow up for
Air Independent Propulsion [AIP] system. The Moray design is able to
integrate the AIP system from RDM Submarines. In close co-operation with
the co-licensor BAE Systems, RDMS has developed a low-noise,
closed-cycle diesel system. The system, which provides for a very low
cost per kW installed, has been tested RDM designed the new AIP system,
which has been named SPECTRE (Submarine Power for Extended Continuous
Trial and Range Enhancement). The SPECTRE AIP system contained the
following: closed-cycle diesel (including a 600 kW DC generator), liquid
nitrogen storage and supply system (total capacity of 60 tons in two
tanks), argon storage and supply system, CO2 absorber and water
management system, CO2 scrubber, and weight compensation tanks for
liquid oxygen.

RDM estimated that a hybrid-powered Moray could remain submerged for 20
days while cruising at two knots. Power is provided by two diesel
generator sets (each delivering 980 kW) that offers an indiscretion rate
of 13 per cent at 6 kt submerged. The total range is 9,500 n miles and
the autonomy is 50 days with a crew of 32. Battery endurance at 2 kt is
120 hours.
Much of the armament and electronics for the Moray would be adapted from
Zeeleeuw/Walrus class to reduce costs. The Moray will be of a modular
single-hull design, constructed of HY 100 steel. The Moray would
consequently be able to reach a diving depth in excess of 300 meters
(1,000 feet). A full sensor suite is incorporated in the design, which
includes a towed array sonar. The design features six weapon tubes each
capable of discharging three different types of weapon (Mk 48 torpedo,
encapsulated Harpoon missiles and mines). A maximum of 20 weapons can be
carried, being loaded via the top hatch directly into the boat's
torpedo room. The C4I systems of all major combat manufacturers can be
integrated in the design. As a standard the design included the latest
model of non-penetrating optronic periscope of Kollmorgen.
The average cost of a Moray was estimated to be about $250 million. No
domestic procurement of the Moray class was forecast. Failures in
Indonesia in 1994, Egypt in 2000, and Malaysia in 2002 raised questions
over the Moray design, as most foreign navies are putting forth the
requirement of a proven hull before purchase
.
As of 1996 RDM, teamed with GEC Marine's VSEL of the UK, was competing
for a submarine contract in Thailand, offering the new Moray design. RDM
had recently procured two decommissioned Zwaardvis class submarines
from the Netherlands Government for possible export in support of Moray
sales. The yard was also investigating whether to acquire four unbuilt
kits for TR 1700 submarines from Argentina for the same reason.
RDM hoped to make a sale to the Indonesians. However, the Indonesian
navy publicly announced their desire to procure the South Korean Type
209 submarines, when they were replaced by the Type 214s in 2007 and
2008. The Indonesian navy operated two Type 209 (Type 1300)-class
submarines and it would be easier to integrate the South Korean Type
209s than the Zwaardvis and Moray designs. The cancellation of the
Zwaardvis/Moray deal put even more pressure on RDM, as it had still not
been able to sell the Moray design, which once was hoped to be a success
on the foreign market.
RDM Submarines of Rotterdam was mentioned in three competitions for
submarines in 2001. But the big money seemed far away, as no order has
yet been placed. Egypt had been a possible customer for some years. The
idea was that the deal would be paid with US military aid, for which
reason it was required that a US yard (Northrop's Ingalls) would build
the boats, using RDM plans and design. Under the deal, RDM of the
Netherlands will build the submarine hulls which would be equipped
Lockheed Martin combat systems at Ingalls' Pascagoula facility. Though a
Letter of Intent had been signed, not much progress was made on the
order.

In 1998 the Dutch government made it clear they would have no
difficulties with the sale of these submarines to the Middle East. The
same was true in the Malaysian case, where the government did not see
any regional arms build-up (Singapore bought their first submarines in
the 1990s, accelerating Malaysia's plans to buy some), nor a
destabilising effect (claims of several Southeast Asian countries on the
Spratly Islands in the potentially oil/gas rich South China Sea). RDM
lost the Malaysian subs deal, with the French on the winning. The
shipping of two old Dutch Navy Zwaardvis submarines to Malaysia in 2001
for refurbishment and trials did not help impress the Malaysians.





المصدر
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
المروحية :




مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الثلاثاء 5 يونيو 2012 - 19:25

طلب لكل خبراء المنتدى ما حدش يبخل فى تفسير الكلام الملون عشان نطمن و نعرف راسنا من رجلينا
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
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مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الخميس 7 يونيو 2012 - 18:29

خير يا جماعة هو انا كتبت حاجة غلط لا سمح الله --- 82 مشاهدة و مفيش رد واحد يبل ريقنا

حد بس يفهمنا الموضوع ايه ---- و الكلام ده صح و لا غلط ؟!
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
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مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الجمعة 8 يونيو 2012 - 19:58

لا تعليق 162 مشاهدة للموضوع و مفيش رد واحد

طب حد يقولنا الكلام ده صح و لا ايه ---- ياكد او ينفى بمصادر

اما كانش كده او كده --- اطلب من المشرفين اغلاق الموضوع طالما همو مش مهم للدرجة ان حد يرد علينا
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
karl roman poli

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الـبلد :
المهنة : مهندس دولة
المزاج : لا يهم
التسجيل : 23/12/2011
عدد المساهمات : 3506
معدل النشاط : 3792
التقييم : 231
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مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الجمعة 8 يونيو 2012 - 20:18

Failures in
Indonesia in 1994, Egypt in 2000

يا غالي لم يكن هناك ردود
لان ما مكتوب بالاحمر يقول ان الصفقة قد فشلت

تقييم لك على مجهودك الدي لم يدهب سدى لانك في الخير ستجد نفسك استفدت ولو بمعلومة
الرجوع الى أعلى الصفحة اذهب الى الأسفل
The Challenger

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الـبلد :
التسجيل : 19/10/2011
عدد المساهمات : 4835
معدل النشاط : 4610
التقييم : 209
الدبـــابة :
الطـــائرة :
المروحية :




مُساهمةموضوع: رد: لخبراء الغواصات فقط   الجمعة 8 يونيو 2012 - 20:26

متشكر اخى كارل على التقييم

انا كنت فاهم غلط ------ كنت فاهم ان الصفقة تاجلت عدة سنوات و لم تفشل و كنت عايز اعرف نتيجة الصفقة

شكرا لك على التوضيح

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